Stephen Moir, Director of Moir Group and Anita Muller, CEO & Business Transformation Expert share with you their thoughts on Humble Leadership.
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Transcript:
[Steve]
I’m here today with Anita Muller. Anita is CEO and founder of Running Tall. And she provides strategy, business transformation, and leadership coaching. So welcome, Anita, thanks for joining. And today, the topic is around humble leadership, and it’s a topic that I know it’s something you’re very passionate about, Anita, and I thought we might start with this idea that humility is sort of in the centre. And then on one side, you’ve got arrogance, and then on the other side, unrealistically sort of low view of self.I mean, do you think that’s a fair representation?
[Anita]
I like that as a concept, more than this idea that humility or being humble is a place, a destination. For me, this idea that if you’re in the middle, and you’ve got those two poles either side. So this idea of being arrogant, or overly confident on one side, and then the idea of being self-effacing on the other. For me, what that means is that you you’re not in a destination, you’re actually traveling. There’s more of a journey. And that’s something that I can connect with. And this idea that you’re never in that safe space, you’re always being adjusted from one to the other. And something that someone pointed out to me, is this idea that either of those poles, those either sides, is a form of narcissism. so being arrogant, or being self-effacing, both are forms of narcissism, where you’re actually more focused on yourself, than you are on the place and space that you’re operating from. So I think that’s really a really powerful reminder that you’ve got this measure in the middle, that is continually telling you that you’re tracking okay. And it’s really this idea also, that you’re you don’t become humble, or, you don’t find humility, it’s humility that finds you. So on that continuum, it’s slapping you in between those two poles.
[Steve]
Yeah. And do you think so leaders that operate with that sense of humility, they’ve got a very good, strong sense of self, and that’s what inspires others to like to work with them, and things like that?
[Anita]
I think that strong self self awareness is a really critical part of that feature of humility, and proven through the research to be a critical part of humility. Where that’s that is also proven through research to be strongly, it’s something, it’s an attribute that is very much valued in the workplace, as opposed to arrogance, which is a disconnect in the workplace.
[Steve]
And when you talk about someone who has this sense of self, what does that look like in the workplace do you think, when I’m reporting to someone like that, what does that look like?
[Anita]
I take out the word strong, I’d say realistic sense of self. So it’s that sense of understanding their self awareness and understanding what they do and don’t know. You know, if you think back around what’s happened with COVID, and if there was ever a vehicle, for leaders to be forced to be more humble, or aware of what they do and don’t know, that’s it’s been an experience over the last couple of years, that’s forced a sense of self-awareness um
like no other experience we’ve had before, or certainly in our lifetime. So I think that it’s more around understanding where we are, what we do and what we don’t know, that’s really important to that concept of humility.
[Steve]
Yeah. And then those kind of leaders have a very, that generates a very strong, positive energy, doesn’t it, around them?
[Anita]
Yeah. I think this this idea of connection and humility, is another really important consideration. There’s no doubt that humble leaders have been proven to have a very strong connection, both to other individuals, and to and to the place that they’re working, in a sense of responsibility. So connection and humility go side by side.
[Steve]
And then with this idea of connection, you know, connection with your environment, and therefore your sort of sense of place in history, and things. You’ll just talk a little bit about that? Because I think there’s a strong link, there isn’t there?
[Anita]
Well, there’s those two aspects: one is sense of self, and also the second being sense of place, which I think is just, again, absolutely critical, when you think about the world we’re in today, that sense of responsibility as a leader, to connect with the role you’ve got in the system, and the responsibility you have to the system. So for me, again, that connection, humble leaders are very clear about their sense of responsibility. If you look at some of the poster children of humility, people like Mandela, people like Merkel, people like Gandhi, that they had a very, very strong sense of connection responsibility. So it wasn’t that they were underplaying themselves. They just understood that they had a bigger role, and there was a bigger sense of the environment that they were working and having to lead into.
[Steve]
And you told me a very nice story about the previous CEO of Unilever, I think, Paul Polman.
[Anita]
Yes, yeah, if you ever, it’s a lovely talk. He’s being interviewed by his son, Sebastian, and it’s only an eight-minute talk. But he talks about his childhood, growing up in Holland, and the story around never forgetting where you came from. And if you listen to this story, he talks about that literally the house that he grew up in, and it’s a reminder that there’s a journey here, wherever you end, wherever you go, that you’re on this journey. And I think that comes back to some of those great leaders that humble wasn’t a place, that they were a trait they were born with. It was the place, it was something that they developed through that journey or that leadership journey. And watching that talk, you’re constantly reminded about another leader of our generation doing the same thing.
[Steve]
And so coming out of COVID, and looking forward, do you think these are some of the traits that some of the, you know, the leading organisations, and leading individuals running those organisations, will have going forward?
[Anita]
I think we’re already doing it. I think that I’m talking with my colleagues about you know advisory work, and consulting work around very, very different leadership conversations that are being had, not just in all sorts of organisations, across genders. And they are leaders are really coming out of this period, quite reflective, much more aware of their place and their responsibility. And as we face into some of those really big challenges ahead, not like COVID, wasn’t a big challenge, but when you look forward, what’s ahead is coming like a wave. And I do think that we’re already hearing very, very different conversations, and humility, and that sense of responsibility, that sense of place, and the sense of smallness against some of those things that are coming, is really paramount. It’s really happening in those conversations. We’re hearing different language, different sense of concerns, different sense of awareness. And so I think that humility is just a fundamental tell-tale sign of the type of leadership that we need going forward.
[Steve]
Yeah, I totally agree. I think, you know, people are, in terms of employees, are demanding that, you know, that’s who they want to work for, and with, and everything. So thank you so much, Anita. That’s been a really great catch-up and session. So let’s see what happens. So, thanks again.
[Anita]
Thank you.
